UnDocumented MH Bot Pathing hints

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Nelsona
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 am

Re: UnDocumented MH Bot Pathing hints

Post by Nelsona » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:51 am

Lol age
I forgot something, but... there is another factor which I could figure toward editing generally. Actors at a moment might ignore math (or NOT) when are placed in Editor and we want an exact location. You can take in account 2 UU (UnrealUnits) error.
Let's see what is about.
MonsterHunt will need a MonsterWaypoint which has a cylinder 30 × 30 UU. Let's put this actor on some 0 UU ground for Z axis and then let's see if location on Z axis will be indeed 30. Cough ?
MHB_Tut31.PNG
MHB_Tut31.PNG (63.01 KiB) Viewed 162 times
Editor at placing this actor actually preserved 2 UU pushing it UPPER having 32 UU height from ground zero even if actor has a 30 UU collision-height.
Why these mentions ?
I went to check exactly when a WayPoint in original MonsterHunt in a plain situation goes UnReachable and pawns cannot see it from a random map spot far away from it. It looks like we can still have it when is placed at 79 UU and later... at 80 UU it won't be found. Considering that a single UU might do damage for whatever situation, when Editor is adding 2 UU error at preserved/predicted location, things are not going to work as supposed.
I'm not interested to find how much is processing engine whatever InventorySpot availability when these are located into whatever 40.999746 z location making some math toward movement with additional fragments for these crapped numbers.
Not often maintained
My UT Mapping works...
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.
- Pablo Picasso -

Nelsona
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 am

Re: UnDocumented MH Bot Pathing hints

Post by Nelsona » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:08 pm

Let's move with a small dodge. Speaking about converted CTF maps to MonsterHunt (majority can be deleted forever).
The most of things toward Bot Pathing according to CTF teleported to MonsterHunt are useless:
- AlternatePath - will have a meaning of a PathNode and nothing like an AlternateRoute;
- TranslocDest - paths passing through are discarded;
- JumpSpot is... tricky depending on situation;
- FlagBase = Spam Errors fest.
In mean time we can discuss here some common CTF problems and BotPathing.
Main Problem - Collision cylinder of FlagBase
This is initial amnesia from Epic forgetting how small is Bot - if this thing is adjusted on a higher position with only 20 UU, FlagBase won't have too many Reachable directives. Previous mapping contests at UT99.org were showing some tutorials in how to never mess these... objectives after all, regarding to brain-fart about design. Nothing is more evil than when cube-drawer called "mapper" now days has decided to pull Flag higher because this is the best position instead of doing a small tech taking a few seconds and leaving path alone.
Let's see a random sample with Flag Location problem.
MHB_Tut32.PNG
MHB_Tut32.PNG (1.1 MiB) Viewed 146 times
The flag here looks pushed higher ? Is this Reachable ?
YES, because FlagBase is low as you might see collision cylinder. And why does it look higher ?
Because actor might have an Advanced Editing for showing hidden properties - lousy things might occur if mapper is failing here:
MHB_Tut33.PNG
MHB_Tut33.PNG (868.58 KiB) Viewed 146 times
PrePivot property opened in advanced editing can be scaled on Z a bit higher making Flag to look less buried in the ground but definitely location is the same as in original. This Flag looks higher but... it's reachable.
Why I have mentioning this editing ( that's why it's called EDITOR after all ) ?
Because even in MonsterHunt mapping, you might see some funky decorations crapped up in original and you might want to see them colliding properly. You might set viewport for showing Actor RadiiView and carefully adjusting these PrePivot values according to whatever tree trunk Vs leafs and such - if that stuff is more complex than for a cylinder, then time has come for BlockAll things toward these needed collisions. XC_EditorAdds has a short route for advanced actor editing in single click without writing commands in console. For these decorations you might take in account DrawScale and adjusting cylinder properly. What's the deal with BlockAll ? Certain chunks might still pass through claiming actors fell out or world, definitely for me this is not how to cover the lack of geometry build. These are good for decorations with various configurations not very suitable as simple cylinders.
Not often maintained
My UT Mapping works...
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.
- Pablo Picasso -

Nelsona
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 am

Re: UnDocumented MH Bot Pathing hints

Post by Nelsona » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:39 pm

Moving boat with a summary so far. For making solid/good paths in UT generally not only MonsterHunt:
- paths have to be navigable;
- paths might have one-way;
- objectives reachable on ground;
- preventing dual routes impossible to follow;
- doing forced connections only if environment is permitting;
- adjusting their location using brain not guessing.

Of course, there are more options to make a mess generally. Next stage is adding PathNodes but not having paths. This is only a load without any purpose of use.
Imagination: Sitting in spot, looking at sky and suddenly you can see a... PathNode. Well... what is that for ? A non-sense loading iterators speeding up bit by bit reaching to boundaries in some moments... A good map is not a map with content added just for having actors loaded.
When player generally and bots cannot reach at PathNode masking it with/inside their body that one is not that useful especially when is not connected nowhere.
I can sample here a lot of NEGATIVE things done over years, but it won't be nice to do that, people will take this as a defaming quest on purpose.
Probably it's way better any description and showing "How to" rather than "look what mess did this guy" - you'll see what I mean by looking at Levels in Editor. But maybe a few of those pretended "original" mappers will need a bit of tinkering in nose for their "samples". We want to learn these simple things at least now at two decades later than never.
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My UT Mapping works...
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.
- Pablo Picasso -

Nelsona
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 am

Re: UnDocumented MH Bot Pathing hints

Post by Nelsona » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:57 pm

Heading to a route which looks... Rocket Science ?
MonsterHunt, CTF, DM, ETC. have a common ground speaking about A.I. Navigation - it's about DAMN LIFTS.
Last time even if it was about a few mapping contest types, where people have to show their best, plonks weren't an exception, I mean messing up LIFTS or simple not doing paths over there. MonsterHunt it's way loaded with such junks based on guessing.
For learning this problem I'll use some strings and NOT images. Why not images ? Because this means SPAM.
In stock maps like DM-Deck16][ or CTF-Gauntlet or others, there are GOOD samples of a LIFT pathing and what setup is required - they can be checked many hours without damaging anything - DO NOT SAVE any stock map. Guaranteed I did not see any Computer exploding when user opened such a map for looking at it and at "How To" - this is one of good learning methods rather than reading 100 pages or watching fake tutorials on YouTube added from some lost region of this planet.
What things are under track ?
- Tag used by Lift Mover and InitialState;
- LiftTag mentioned by those THREE navigationpoints involved in route - they can be even more when have to - LiftTag can be found by opening their properties and not only adding them in map without purpose - this word will be the same as the TAG used by Mover-Lift;
- alignment for each key-frame of Lift - A.I. should have exit reachable unless they are coming back.
What else is good to know toward a lift it's how to inform A.I. about a higher platform that needs a step-height. Here we can discuss details using simple images.
MHB_Tut34.PNG
MHB_Tut34.PNG (21.13 KiB) Viewed 120 times
In image you will see what is MaxZDiffAdd value and when it's used. When Lift Entry is lower, or simply LiftCenter for Combos it's on a box higher than entrance point, we might want to declare how high is this height or else Bot might be waiting a lift which will never come in desired position. I'm not convinced that less intelligent pawns might use such paths but here Bot it's in charge.
Not often maintained
My UT Mapping works...
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.
- Pablo Picasso -

Nelsona
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 am

Re: UnDocumented MH Bot Pathing hints

Post by Nelsona » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:41 pm

As a recall about an Event occurred in a MH map. Horizontal Elevators.
Types like MH-Cliffs2 having horizontal elevators/lifts might convince Bot about a fake navigation motivating them to jump out of Lift too early and falling into a death hole or another bad thing causing a loop in that zone.
Solutions for this default stock problem are as follows:
- using an educated Bot - that's up on user;
- using a trigger/actor controlling Bots on a mover base - UScript knowledge required;
- using a "Reachable Prevention" method - a box-brush making LiftExit used as exit point to be Visible/Reachable when lift/elevator is closer enough for a jump - smarty mapping here and no scripts is/are needed.

I used this last solution with success. Exit is not visible but it becomes visible when Mover is closer to ledge and a jump is doable with no failure.

Another situation is whatever Train types. Not all of them were working fine for a simple reason. If train it's like a pig trough with a lower LiftCenter, this one won't have as a reachable point the exit navigation actor. Bot keeps waiting train to get into position but it won't happen, returning and looping there forever. Advice is to forget such a design for train, I did not see too many such troughs in Real Life - it's a Brain-Fart and such thing was even poorly designed not only messed up at Bot chapter.
For any mover it is advisable to have exit accessible closer and similar height location with LiftCenter when Lift is on exiting keyframe not higher and not too far. Default reachSpec here claims 500 UU distance. If Exit is too far, Bot might stay in lift expecting to get closer to exit.

In MH maps where Bot should not try to return ever in a previous area, bOneWayPath used will lock routes back to spawn room and keeping them into an advancing stage, especially when such an elevator is causing troubles at the way back - are needed two such box-blockers.
Not often maintained
My UT Mapping works...
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.
- Pablo Picasso -

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