Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Show us and share your created maps.
User avatar
evilgrins
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:14 am
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Contact:

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:56 pm

Not for fixing, but I wanted to run something by you.

Not all maps I edit I think require fixing. So long as they play okay and have no real hangups, I figure they're good to go.

This map?
https://unreal-games.livejournal.com/133386.html

Bots use the whole space, they capture the flag and they score. It's some of the most flawless gameplay by bots I've seen in a long time.

1 weird thing though... near as i can tell there is NO PATHING ON THAT MAP WHATSOEVER... which given how well it plays seems odd.

Could be just because the playable area isn't that big, using pick-ups as pathing... I dunno.

Anyway, I thought I'd bounce it by your way when there was a lull in activity, which we seem to be in now.

Enjoy!
Image
Have you hugged a Skaarj today?
Skaarj need love too!
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/

Nelsona
Posts: 968
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 am

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:55 am

evilgrins wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:56 pm
1 weird thing though... near as i can tell there is NO PATHING ON THAT MAP WHATSOEVER... which given how well it plays seems odd.
Yep... I'm sorry if you cannot get these simple things. MAP HAS PATHS,
ItsNotWhatYouThinkAbout.PNG
ItsNotWhatYouThinkAbout.PNG (1.2 MiB) Viewed 365 times
disregarding what you say. If it doesn't use PathNodes that's another story. Now you can explain to the guy from Wiki talking about InventorySpot as an EndPoint, that you have a CTF map without PathNodes which works by using only InventorySpots as NavigationPoints and this way WAS ALWAYS working - it's what Polge said in his pathing docs but no one cares not even after 100 years.

And the tech-torial:
There are TWO visible reachSpecs making this possible to work, these are reachspecs 358 and 191 causing a complete and unique drawn connection between the two Bases. If you are not getting used with Showing Paths in Editor this doesn't mean that map has no paths :lol: .
ThisIsWhyItWorks.PNG
ThisIsWhyItWorks.PNG (1.13 MiB) Viewed 365 times
However, not a real bad thing but...

Code: Select all

MaxNumFound: I found 364 reachspecs, from 0 to 363.
WarnDist: 8 reachSpecs have nodes claimed too close.
in such a simple map I think 364 reachSpecs in array are exaggerated.
A confirmation for me from me.
MoreEfficient.PNG
MoreEfficient.PNG (1.09 MiB) Viewed 364 times
More completed with paths and smaller map-file 101,097 bytes went to 92,560 and I did not clean reachSpecs which are not needed. Even here I can see well some jumpers reachSpecs which I don't need... that's another story...
Here is an evidence about junks hosted in a map. We do have 123 reachSpecs covering more properly map instead of 364 from which 252 are invisible PrunedPaths.

PS: I think I'm ON-Topic with regard to the title, for section "pathing enhancements".

Edit: Bet House theme ?
I might bet on making this very simple CTF cube to work with Bots having under 70-80 reachSpecs or less... As "enhancement" on a way...

As for Non-Pathing chapter - map is... NOT WELL done. Lower area SHOULD KILL and here I don't see any threat for pawns (monsters probably) won't die at bottom... Simple map but a sort of junk at this point...
And then this thing:
InitialStructure.PNG
InitialStructure.PNG (40.61 KiB) Viewed 352 times
Can be turned into this:
AnotherStructure.PNG
AnotherStructure.PNG (39.45 KiB) Viewed 352 times
All build doesn't include issues completely detonating semisolid myths... In such maps if you follow a few rules and do some checks map won't have any single bug.
Flags were aligned too.
Not often maintained
My UT Mapping works...
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.
- Pablo Picasso -

User avatar
evilgrins
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:14 am
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Contact:

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:45 pm

Nelsona wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:55 am
I'm sorry if you cannot get these simple things. MAP HAS PATHS,
Sorry, I should've said no apples.
Image
Have you hugged a Skaarj today?
Skaarj need love too!
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/

Nelsona
Posts: 968
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 am

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:01 pm

No apples today, only meat, 72 pounds. Oops, I mean 72 reachSpecs are suffice in here...
CTF-KuzIamFab_rS72.7z
(17.85 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
Should I remove brushes for not taking so much space on drives ? :lol: This is good for any 100K mapping contest...
Not often maintained
My UT Mapping works...
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.
- Pablo Picasso -

User avatar
evilgrins
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:14 am
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Contact:

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:55 am

Aw, man... I didn't want you to fix CTF-KuzIamFab. It works fine as is.
Image
Just wanted you to explain to me why it worked with no apples.

On a random note, got my hands on this the other day...
https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... 61da7.html

It's got StrangeLove/SLV rockets on it and I was surprised to see bots riding them... better than I likely could.

Flew right into structures and piloted them down hallways.
Image
Have you hugged a Skaarj today?
Skaarj need love too!
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/

Nelsona
Posts: 968
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 am

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:01 am

Wrong - map doesn't have a DEATH zone as it should - read again what I said, Monsters falling by dodging won't die, having a meeting at bottom and staying safe - a Noob map after all. Why there are needed mixing brushes like that ? Polygons could be merged, ect.
Nelsona wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:55 am
As for Non-Pathing chapter - map is... NOT WELL done. Lower area SHOULD KILL and here I don't see any threat for pawns (monsters probably) won't die at bottom...
CTF-HOTH
Due to PathNodes added in map, SLV can deploy some of these SkyNet things which are possible to help a while.

However... a map should not have JETS - that's against fixes and updates and this mod it's far from being finished - mod should apply rockets and all specific content and NOT MAP. And next point, default ground paths in the middle are ONE-WAY. PathNode10 is generating broken routes - this is wrong. And then for showing the rest of no knowledge, Map has Lift combos. What kind of combos ? Combos linked everywhere through walls because their LiftTag is None like the brain content for mapping such junks. I'm about to throw up when I see such completely retarded paths. First time I though that are teleporters but no, they are common combos. Excuse me, but a RX server which has a target QUALITY should not have a dumb thing like this one with "Hard-coded" Jets added in map. That's the way no go.
Map should have some rocket Launcher and Redeemer, recommended paths nearby Flags where Mods are adding extra-Jets according to mutator used. I understand that real Fly Paths were probably impossible in 2007, but here is a guess even those normal ones, of course I'm wrong saying "normal" because what is here is not the "How To Bot-Pathing" maps.
Not often maintained
My UT Mapping works...
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.
- Pablo Picasso -

User avatar
evilgrins
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:14 am
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Contact:

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:59 pm

Nelsona wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:01 am
Wrong - map doesn't have a DEATH zone as it should
True, but I had that covered. The Cyberus down there kill anything that survives the fall.
Nelsona wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:01 am
However... a map should not have JETS
A few jets can't be that bad.

Currently toying around with editing a map from LONG AGO that has Quantum Jets on it, but I'm editing with every flying jet imagined. From RX to RoseBum's flying saucer to SLV to whatever else I can find. May not be playable online but it should be interesting when I'm done.

Stumbled to the idea from an old post papercoffee made about setting up a map with multiple means to fly on it. Been percolating in my head until I finally saw the right map to do it on.

Did you see that Bat Wings post I made on ut99.org? Those too.
Attachments
Shot0032.png
Shot0032.png (677.84 KiB) Viewed 317 times
Image
Have you hugged a Skaarj today?
Skaarj need love too!
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/

Nelsona
Posts: 968
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 am

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:37 am

There a few things in account for me:
- things which are done Exclusively for players out of Bot support are not what I'm looking for - I don't install everything to screw up my game. And I don't like to cheat Bots having an advantage in front of them. There are maps encouraging these and those are DELETED from my play-ground.
- as a man hunting down errors and which I had my hand at maintenance in the UT server which was ranked #1 from this planet, bugged craps and poorly coded things are the very last thing which I'm using. It's not my way with a Jets soup and also SPAM soup which these wrecks are doing. I saw codes, I touched them, they are pathetic.

You should ask yourself why I do research in Navigation stuff. Let me see:
- #1 improving my knowledge as long as I lack at some points;
- #2 so far what I see majority of modifications are just a guess work - that's not an explanation "Bots are dumb" - Bot's dumbness in big parts is coming from how is the map. Let me guess... It wasn't Bot the guy who did the map. Now who is the bigger stupid in stage ?
The same is with items having ZERO bot codes or not providing a Bot capable to beat you at this point. Why would I waste time when I have things to fix ?
Something has captured my attention, a DM-CastleDeck16 version of known Deck16 map series. Another mess so to speak and I'm stating on my opinion.
First of all not all mapping means Texture and Walls. You can imagine that he left old paths after removing grounds and leaving them in air. Poor mindless fool...
HowToMessUpMaps.PNG
HowToMessUpMaps.PNG (1.13 MiB) Viewed 311 times
And then, new rooms created have no paths. Not the last thing, old overcrowded paths were not adjusted in any way spreading bugs forward.
He mentioned a feed-back way giving some e-mail. I'm not bother with e-mails sent to such geniuses, it's a waste of time and he doesn't look like he knows what is doing anyway.
NotSuchFairPlay.PNG
NotSuchFairPlay.PNG (1.21 MiB) Viewed 311 times
Now allow me to ask a common question: How it's called when you have an advantage against your game opponents ? Let me guess: CHEATING ! Exactly, and it's happily embedded in maps. He did not fix even that teleporter heading to old deemer location. He did not fix anything, just releasing another more bugged junk than it was.

As you can see, if you don't "flood" me with some maps to adjust, I can find some of these modifications previously being EPIC's work, properly messed up, for which I won't credit anyone because they mainly deserve a kick in butt for what they do and nothing like a credit.

A reminder for those with an earlier amnesia installed right in their childhood:
- PathNodes are not hurting maps which are played out of Bots - in servers, PathNodes won't exhaust Net channels because are static and I tested these - you can test these too;
- PathNodes can be a guide for spawning various stuff: relics, monsters, other placards, various future things;
- YOU can use Navigation for finding your enemy in bigger and maze type maps, if a custom game-type is used - exactly, read again, it works.
Not often maintained
My UT Mapping works...
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.
- Pablo Picasso -

Nelsona
Posts: 968
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 am

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:35 pm

As a fun theme for me I did a re-examination at map DM-CoolBlue_whatever.
This map had a read-me file logically explaining the harder (considered impossible in that time) to do paths heading to/through healthvials from those narrow ledges. The old modification was heading MBots there somehow - still less interest and navigation over there, but right now map has a more simple navigation network and... main paths are passing through vials as being shorter awaking interest for roaming on those ledges. Also map did not cause problems during details examination, it was entertaining and challenging, perhaps Bot Pathing here is superior to all versions of this map done so far... lol. Here we have an awesome participation of two Bot_Jumper actors updated and making Bot more sure about his jumping capabilities...
Good UGold functions, really good...
CoolB252rS.PNG
CoolB252rS.PNG (989.69 KiB) Viewed 258 times
And then... we have Bot's almost how we want.

Awaiting next suggestion for enhancements...
Not often maintained
My UT Mapping works...
Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.
- Pablo Picasso -

User avatar
SC]-[WARTZ_{HoF}
Site Admin
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 7:08 am

Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by SC]-[WARTZ_{HoF} » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:47 pm

Me and the DM crew play this map alot. Good to know it is working well.

Post Reply