Map assessment and pathing enhancements

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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:41 pm

All right, CTF-Gravija has now all logic required One-Way paths through gravity tubes. I think won't hurt some AlternatePaths, perhaps game is not that hard for human vs bots because... player can use gravity and translocator how wants and also crawling all sort of locations which would be a DevPath challenge by full filling map with nodes.
But we have a CTF with Bots here:
CTF-Gravija_rS1462.7z
(455.43 KiB) Downloaded 37 times

Now let me look at that BattleForIceNFire map.

Map Examination:
Initial report doesn't show major problems - maps it's inside Engine... but - excuse me - those are not paths to Flag. I'm not in charge to talk a lot, I'll allow MapGarbage to say what did it found.
MapGarbage wrote: NumReachSpecs: This map has 1575 ReachSpecs shown as direct paths in Navigation Network.
NumReachSpecs: Also this map has 1238 ReachSpecs as shortcuts aka PrunedPaths in Navigation Network.
NumReachSpecs: These are not visible in Editor but they are used by Pawns.
NumReachSpecs: After calculation we have 2813 ReachSpecs.

MaxNumFound: I found 2843 reachspecs, from 0 to 2842.
WarnDist: 18 reachSpecs have nodes claimed too close.

Specs: No NavigationPoint heads to FlagBase0 as shown in list. If a route passes through, it won't be usable.
Specs: No NavigationPoint heads to FlagBase1 as shown in list. If a route passes through, it won't be usable.

CTFReport: --- Reporting AlternatePaths setup: ---
CTFReport: For Team 0 = 0 pieces.
CTFReport: For Team 1 = 0 pieces.

DefenseChecks: Map has 0 DefensePoint Actors for team 0. Check if this is wrong.
DefenseChecks: Map has 0 DefensePoint Actors for team 1. Check if this is wrong.
In theory only two reachSpecs could bring some interest for Flags. In practice we do have wild areas without paths and I'm not really loving those PathNodes placed pretty higher over ground. I'm not curious about how do they help in game or not helping, but that's not what a Bot wants.

And... I think time has come for new stuff... Allow me to write something...
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evilgrins
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:24 pm

Nelsona wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:41 pm
I think time has come for new stuff... Allow me to write something...
You got any interest in trying to map a Shambler model onto a SkaarjBerserker? Thereby making a new monster for MH...

Shambler · http://medor.no-ip.org/index.php?dir=sk ... ambler.zip

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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:36 pm

Usually I have a bit of interest for new stuff... but here it's about several factors that needs to be in account:
- package might be messed up in future or in the past with a FAKE duplicate copy;
- package might have a bad mismatch like Spinner (monster and Player/Bot) - two different things;
- package might have lousy codes like testing attitude for a variable-object instead of a pawn and/or original stock codes with zero fixes.

As a side effect, if I like such a creature I'm quickly importing it in MyLevel. Right there all bad things can be rewritten without calling or affecting versions insanity having no dependency with original package. It's what I did with more than one package which I used in a random map which will be the only download ON-Line and without versions pain.

Right now by example I have two things in a private package (custom InventorySpot and a custom teleporter) which has only a purpose - importing, and nothing else.

Checked:
These "shambler" are not mapping stuff, it has a Bot model (common Bot) and a Player model not a Monster... but I think it can be turned into a monster.
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evilgrins
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:51 pm

Okay, this may present a challenge on all sorts of levels.

1) This is a small HIGHLY DETAILED map for RX, so it has no pathing.
2) The amount of detail slightly bogs down the memory.

Think you can do anything to this?
Attachments
CTF-((OB))TikiTiki_Fixed.zip
(10.1 MiB) Downloaded 31 times
Shot0181.png
Shot0181.png (1.43 MiB) Viewed 1118 times
Shot0178.png
Shot0178.png (1.24 MiB) Viewed 1118 times
Shot0175.png
Shot0175.png (1.1 MiB) Viewed 1118 times
Shot0173.png
Shot0173.png (1.32 MiB) Viewed 1118 times
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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:14 pm

In 2020, even if is about an RX map, paths can be done because this way we can improve Bot Action. Like I said, We have a basic skeleton of RX CTF bot support and yes, old codes were... bullshit, all that SkyNet crap (coders looking there might figure what I'm talking about).

If you do have a map intended for RX and or not RX CTF such map should have double paths between Flags: Air paths - shorter length and ground paths for those losing plane and normal alternate attack. This is doable by anyone knowing UGold Editor and features which allow separate paths by declaring proscribed vs forced paths. If there is nobody wanting a challenge then... let me look at map and give me some time. I need to test first if Devs are supporting navigation...

Edit: At first check map has paths... split in pieces - plain stupid. PlayerStarts aren't connected at all. There are routes heading through a few bandages but the Bots entered in game cannot figure paths very quickly. For RX play we definitely need links and aerial paths.
Let's say that paths are not the big deal... As usual I cannot be more annoyed than when map has "_Fixed" suffix which demonstrates exactly the opposite: NOT READY and far from being fixed - I don't recall a mobile map after all :tease: .
#1 - even plain paths are not done correctly - large areas are missing in pathing, only central roads have some paths linking those bandages...
#2 - collision problems - fake collisions ? What the heck is this bullshit ?
Lol_Collisions.PNG
Lol_Collisions.PNG (1.19 MiB) Viewed 1114 times
Trees are colliding actors in a bigger radius than they are visually designed. Any reason for this schizophrenia ?
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evilgrins
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:03 pm

Nelsona wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:14 pm
bullshit, all that SkyNet crap
Careful, Terminators are gonna get you.
Nelsona wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:14 pm
Trees are colliding actors in a bigger radius than they are visually designed. Any reason for this schizophrenia?
This reminds me of a reverse to the complaint you made about the DarkForest MH map, because the trees weren't solid... but no, no idea why on this map.

Map is from the VulpineMisson forum. They have HUNDREDS of maps for RX, it's possible they consider it a skill thing to dodge between the trees while flying.
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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:03 pm

I understand the logic of hitting a tree but not understanding hitting a nothing nearby tree. These cylinders are TOO BIG. Such decorations won't have the best ever cylinders, that's why BlockAll actors can complete stage but here is just insanity. What for such dimensions instead of making them closer to the tree diameter ?
The rest is just a story, you can drive jet much over forest... Here will be added aerial paths anyway. But for the moment I'll inspect all trees...
In DarkForest was the reversal, a Titan throwing a rock initially invisible masked by a tree, was hitting you properly coming from leafs because monster could see you very well ignoring human eye occlusion. There I did not see any small attempt to clone a bit a real forest with all obstructions like in reality. To not mention that no one was trying to setup some triggers simulating a wood hit sound or some leafs noise when whatever thing was going through a plant... Certain decorations had attempts to sounds but... I don't recall more maps having a use of them.
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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:00 am

Okay, it looks like 563 reachSpecs are covering well map in big parts, map being an open space - Bots are not having visibility problem through trees. However, we do have an aerial route in case that any potential future RX Bots might have interest in flight more that in fighting and crushing - with the risk to ignore enemy. In other hand the stage here is a bloody thing, the show it's entertaining sustained by this natural atmosphere.
RX_Stage.png
RX_Stage.png (1.81 MiB) Viewed 1098 times
I gotta test this more for figuring if exist paths through trees, we need to prevent any blind movement which doesn't look good.

Edit: I think it's done for now...
CTF-(OB)_TikiTiki_rS563.7z
(6.87 MiB) Downloaded 31 times
Have fun !
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evilgrins
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins » Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:56 pm

As always, you are a miracle worker.
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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:49 pm

All workers are doing good things with... Tools - those are important. Without PathsLinker/MapGarbage I would spend here... days... or even more...

Note: I tested map a few times and... a single time I witnessed a capture for Blue team using... Jet.
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