Map assessment and pathing enhancements

[evilgrins]

What I liked about the Titan-pathing you did was mostly that the UTDMT kept returning to the base, even if they went after someone they eventually went back to the base and resumed protecting it.

My only desire for Warlord-pathing would be something similar, though as you state that may be next to impossible. Not so much them patrolling, but after they're done doing whatever they left the base for that they come back eventually.

[Nelsona]

I'm not saying that Patrolling will be fine, I cannot reply anything without testing. On the ground Warlords are very slow. For Patrolling in air they might want to switch physics and I'm not sure if they will do that by themselves... Hmm, I think I'll pack the two versions which I've done: one for common CTF gaming and the second with these "Hunters" - Then I might do some test with Patrols. Even in flag hunter mode at a moment after killing an opponent they were having seldom issues with finding Paths, then creature will quit doing mission if has no destination. I reinforced them using a custom actor dedicated to protect their mission with any matter. I believe some reachSpec might not be very compatible with them discarding them when are out of their air routes... First you might want to look at that map and... you might want to use Real Weapons because that Lance against a Warlord running with your Flag is entirely useless and Redeemer is not always available...
If Warlords are participating at CTF game might go harder than expected. The rest... are random UT bugs... I added jumpers around this "feature"
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=326&start=10#p3203
We do have these "walls" taken as plain routes where Bot might have issues, last option would be covering this "awesome geometry" links (trash more exactly) with a BlockAll forcing their StepHeight over these stupid slants. In some cases by moving slowly you can feel them too.

Normal map:

CTF-UTDMW-GodsOfEgyptWIP_rS853.7z

(481.92 KiB) Downloaded 166 times

And a different one:

CTF-UTDMW-GodsOfEgyptWIP_rS943_AlPCap.7z

(485.28 KiB) Downloaded 169 times

I'll try to figure what is doable with Patrols, but I cannot say that they will be fine.

[evilgrins]

I'm not saying that Patrolling will be fine, I cannot reply anything without testing. On the ground Warlords are very slow. For Patrolling in air they might want to switch physics and I'm not sure if they will do that by themselves...

I've a map in mind for testing patrolling on, for Warlords and Titans both, but we can come back to that. later.

I'll see how these 2 play out and get back to you.

Since you saw the recent updates, do you have an assessment for this · https://ut99.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13704 · and can you repair the issues?

[Nelsona]

Meh.... Ssshhhht

-Whispering-
You can imagine... after that new UZ compression thingy I was interested what can I do for this OVER-ENGINE type map, because YES, it is over boundaries and... maybe not a lot of people will understand what is about.
Let me see...
- Buggie has recommended merging polygons everywhere as much as it can be done - Executed;
- Sektor2111 says about reducing reachSpecs and all junks - Executed;
- Author said about editing problems, will need something un-released in public - lol, not exactly - Executed.

I was taking in account LITE version which went "Hyper-Lite" and still... a heavy load. Anyway... less reachSpecs are making Bots to play CTF properly... and I have not used AlternatePaths... not yet...

-Louder volume-
... Eh ? Perhaps it can be turned back to an UT map...

[evilgrins]

Why did you lessen the earthquakes from how more frequent they were? I liked the earthquakes!

Also, that other map didn't quite work... I can't open it in UnrealEd, and the way the Warlords fly is impressive, they were actually making flag captures... but it's like they're flying along a path regardless which way they're facing. Seems weird.

So, the other map... Warlords on the Blue Team show some difficulty with the ramps. They walk down a little, immediately flip around, and then do it again 3 times before moving on. Caught the Blue Warlord a couple times trying to walk through a wall, instead of turning when he walked into it. Some instances of Warlords walking while flying... which seems odd.

[Nelsona]

If map cannot be opened in your Editor I would like to see what log file is saying. This way I don't get what's up with it.
For me is like here:

ItOpens.PNG (1.35 MiB) Viewed 26935 times

So, the other map... Warlords on the Blue Team show some difficulty with the ramps. They walk down a little, immediately flip around, and then do it again 3 times before moving on. Caught the Blue Warlord a couple times trying to walk through a wall, instead of turning when he walked into it. Some instances of Warlords walking while flying... which seems odd.

I told you about two things that you need to be aware of them:
- Warlords are not such good roamers - their movement is not that clear to me;
- Map has those "Ramps" never climbable, you can even do some probing by trying to walk through them, there I used some jumpers for common purpose, reacting at walking pawns. Perhaps some of those jumpers can be removed (those from top). At lower area Bots were having issues and that's why I added them, you can use strategy with BlockALLs but... let me know why map won't open in your Editor... look at logs, guessing is not useful here. In other hand that SPACE which you have in map's file path for me is not what I want to see at a folder. SPACE is a separator symbol not for common usage... or... map is referencing something missing. Only log can explain this problem. Here I hope you did not used "SaveAs" instead of "Open" command... and creating an empty map with that name...

. but it's like they're flying along a path regardless which way they're facing. Seems weird.

Yes, because they might be want to face enemy while they move to next point - All those have bStrafeTo=True you can do an experiment with them turned to False.

EarthQuake
There is a StochasticTrigger in map (you can find it from menu) modify frequency timers as you want for your final edit - no big deal. Minimal timer should be 10 because this is duration of the quake, else you'll re-trigger during its working stage .

[evilgrins]

Okay...

Assessments, please.

[Nelsona]

I was wasting a bit of time with CTF-Erida due to my interest for Trains challenge...
The fact is... we have serious bad news as follows...
Both trains moving through 7 keyframes are rotating 32768 during their movement. These are having as Base another mover class Educated to execute a constant loop. Several settings were properly crapped up by mapper as long as UTFlare was never intended for being screwed as not bStatic actor, this means net trashes.
A normal light set as bNoDelete and loved can follow train simulating train lights. Good... so far.
We do have LiftCenters required by these - Movers. Due to their movement and rotations, LiftCenters are moved out of lift without sitting at the same offset as light attached to train doesn't matter what I did. Bots in their "best life" moments are tracking these LiftCenters and they go full retarded when these are going out of train for no reason.
Let me see:
- UT 440 was jerky
- UT 451 + XCGE 21 did not do anything better
- UT 469 is not having anything like a fix, to me it looks even a bit worst than 440 at this point.
I changed drawtype, I screwed mass, I set them capable to follow some rotation, I tried "PHYS_Trailer" and setting up Owner as being Mover right in map, reinforcing an attachment to the base, NOTHING helpful.

If by chance Train arrives with a Bot to destination station, LiftCenter is located at the other train door, losing initial offset. In end, LiftCenters are worst than a light when are attached at movers, even they have NATIVELY support for movers - LIFTS more exactly.
I'll show you some images with what is about... Perhaps Trains here won't have any use from Bots - are just bullshit.

LiftCenter_InitialLocation.png (1.45 MiB) Viewed 26903 times

This is at beginning, let me show you what was the deal later...

LiftCenter_KaragFollowingMission.png (1.14 MiB) Viewed 26903 times

Bot went into train properly.

LiftCenter_MovingOut_TweakerHoldingBot.png (1.24 MiB) Viewed 26903 times

And then LiftCenter went crazy...
Let me see, newer UT... I set display as mesh in hoping to a different deal.

LiftCenter_SetMesh469_WentOutOfTrain.png (1.48 MiB) Viewed 26903 times

It went even worst.

LiftCenter_SetMesh469_MindlessNavigation.png (458.65 KiB) Viewed 26903 times

LiftCenter_SetMesh469_WentBackInTrain.png (1.31 MiB) Viewed 26903 times

After a while suddenly LiftCenter has returned back in spot...
Train is rotating in two stages, after first turn, things are still okay, after second turn effects are entirely unpredictable - this is what we have as UE1...
And then... I think in this case Movers are not going to have any pathing because this is not a good LiftCenter carrier, it's garbage all day long.

I don't know if map is that worst as geometry or those Movers are evil for no reason, but... I used those trains, no gaps, no borked collisions, heck knows what's the deal with that SetBase stuff and actor's ticking...

[evilgrins]

It is hard to find a map with a good train system, isn't it? I've several but the only one where the trains work best the map has no pathing to speak of and it's a fairly basic, but extensive design. Although, each train stop is a primary color theme so I suppose a truly demented sort could path it and either make it ideal for team games or CTF4...

...I suspect the map is so basic as to not draw memory away from the functioning trains.

Always funny when bots/players try to chase down the train they missed.

Most trains that work best only go back and forth, though. That map up there the train arrives at a station and then turns around, after a fashion, to then leave again on a different track. Probably a bit too much attempted there.

[Nelsona]

Trains working in straight line or having a single turn don't seems to have issues but here we have a "full mover", more exactly 7 keys. Total YAW turning is 32768. Engine is not able to handle an actor having such mover as Base - exactly an actor intended for this task - thanks to holy Brush0, at least lights attached are working...

Anyway after a few clarifications with zones killers and lousy SpecialDamage, some stair swallowed me at once with Enemy Flag... I removed that crap and i Duplicated the other stair from Blue Base and now I see that zone in good state. I'm curious what else is rammed because he used "BlockPlayer" without actually to block anything...

Somehow he wanted a bit of "intelligence" using bOneWayPath settings but... of course editing in years 2000 was an ancient full ruined wreck... hard to do all needs.
And then... Translocator. Some routes were having ZERO logic. Translocation distance being too big (too long)... a constant failure. I'm just wondering if these people, even if was year 2000, if they even did three tests before claiming "map ready"...

Action here is nice but... settings... to not forget some kickers dropping pawn exactly with a reverse velocity, a mess... Those things could be tested with empty map and figuring required velocity, piece of cake... I can do settings at kickers even if I'm drinking all night long and next day I'm in hangover throwing up at each 2 hours. I think mapping ignorance rate here was 3 / 5...