Map assessment and pathing enhancements

[evilgrins]

Multiskins is the same as how I used to skin the playerbots I placed on maps. You just need to know which texture goes to which number.

Abbey was simple, it's a 1 texture for the whole body.

[Nelsona]

Aham, I got it, simple skinned pawn...

Good... Now you can point me at next map. I have countless PathNodes for distribution.

[evilgrins]

Good... Now you can point me at next map. I have countless PathNodes for distribution.

It's not so much the next map as it is the next MAPS.

Quite awhile back, early 2020, I got into a chat on Facebook in a UT group about ZenCoder's BurgerWars maps, someone suggested they could do with UTDM-monsters... and I've been tinkering ever since.

What we have here is:
· CTF-UTDM-Cannons-BurgerWars
· CTF-UTDMS-BurgerWars
· CTF-UTDMT-BurgerWars
· CTF-UTDMW-Cannons-BurgerWars

Strangely the UTDM one is the smallest yet I felt compelled to put all 3 types of these monsters on it. Go figure.

You may have fun and frustration with these as these are older maps, and even though ZenCoder made them you ALWAYS go on about how bad pathing was way back when.

Mostly I'm concerned with bot pathing for all, it's decent enough for play but I'd like your assessment all the same.

As to UTDM pathing... only think the one that needs it is CTF-UTDMW-Cannons-BurgerWars. For the most part the Warlords do okay as is but they do get lost here and there.

There's some other things I want to do to them but that can wait until you're done.

Yes, all the monsters are unusually fat. Fast food will do that to people.

[Nelsona]

You may have fun and frustration with these as these are older maps, and even though ZenCoder made them you ALWAYS go on about how bad pathing was way back when.

Even if GOD has worked on these maps, if Monster is BIGGER than 70×70 in run-time, original navigation HEADS NOWHERE doesn't matter if Bot works well/perfect. These are plain devs doesn't matter who did and what did. This is a reality visible in previous maps with creatures. Take that older one (Tundra etc) with Titan patrolling, put DrawScale 1.5 and see if moron is patrolling anymore - let me see, he won't do that. If you want a big ass titan to patrol in map, reachspecs have to be EDITED.
There are maps with paths - BOTS are working, but you cannot offer a warranty for Monsters - it's up on what is there.
Next: In BurgerWar maps you are not expecting Warlords to enter in Flags rooms, right ? Unless you want to shrink them turning into flies...

Next stage: Some Bu(r)gerWars version having those UDamage things on roofs are not having paths at them and neither those high spots with weapons, this is visible, and for me this is a trash action against Bots, I don't care who did paths and why did things like that. UT has all needs for making combos and jumpy routes, I don't see why player should have everything and Bot to be restricted. These are not the only stages, more maps are having CHEATS - this is the right term - against Bots. I have armors, healing, shields and Bots are not getting them. The dumb idiotic habit was initiated by EPIC themselves by not adding paths to Redeemer in DM-Deck16][ demonstrating that they did the game for cheating instead of fair play. It's when I'm ruining these without asking anything and doing settings closer to real needs.

[evilgrins]

No, I don't want Warlords to take the flag, just patrol their areas... and if they get lost then eventually wander back to their area.

Yeah, item placement is an issue I'm still working out. Even with jump boots and transloc, some things are too hard to get to as is.

ZC setup the UTDMT map with Quantum Jets, which I'm planning to swap with redeemers for anyone that wants to try SLV/RX; blue base that would work but not the red base.

I swapped dumb ads with Zombie McDonald and Burger Sith, but I need to collect some other stuff for the windows of each base that fits better.

[Nelsona]

Okay, first thing: I don't know who Zen Coder is and if he know what it does or simply don't know too much about PATHING and CTFGame:
- UTDMT-BurgerWars has only ONE FLAG Base - edit - other one is another custom class lol;
- Route to said FlagBase has a Teleporter as shortcut as long as that LIFT has Nothing to do with A.I.;
- In this town there is no single AlternatePath:
- and more stuff with less logic, such as a Teleporter on a high spot heading nowhere - Bot is not interested to move there.
This it's not what I call CTF pathing, it's more like an unfinished map. Did you see that it has only one FlagBase ?

[evilgrins]

Okay, first thing: I don't know who Zed Coder is

That's kinda scary.

Zen Coder is one of the 1st major creators of mutators and other stuff for UT99. From MonsterMadness to DeemerFireworks, he's been all over the place. There's probably been several things in UT you've loved and had no idea but he made them. Used to have his own site, long before I knew about forums I used to bump ideas and chat UT with him on there.

He created the QuantumJets/GhandiJets too. That's his other nickname, Ghandi.

- UTDMT-BurgerWars has only ONE FLAG Base

Nope, there are 2.

In the screenshot I sent before with the Titan in it... see that McDonald's logo above him? That's where the Red Base is, you get up there via teleports that are in 2 corridors in front of that Titan.

Blue Base is on top of the burger tower, there's a lift in the lower building.

Yeah, as i said, I expected you'd have problem with the old pathing

[Nelsona]

DeemerFireworks does errors - that's useless to me. In whatever MH map, patch plugins were destroying those Quantum Ghandi things just because they don't fit there... in my MH ground with Bots, if Mod is against Bots, that is deleted in seconds - EndOfStory.
Second AGAIN: Did you see how many FlagBase actors has the map ? You don't have to show me screenshots of empty bases... - Edit: found another flag class for a custom skin.....

Note: If I want a small mod/tool usually I do it myself, it's why I don't know too many coders... and I'm not curious about such unfinished works and Copy-Paste coding. DeemerFireworks as far as I recall has a copy of stock grenade. When stock grenade has a mesh, new "projectile" doesn't have a mesh. Thanks to Epic that engine has a sanity check when a null mesh was trying to run an animation. At C++ Level this is an instant crash, UScript is a bit guarded... If you have more such "codes" be sure I'll wipe them out...

In mean-time - I have a map CTF-BurgerWars signed "Britton Wesley <britton_wesley@yahoo.com>" - I'm not sure about this "Zen author".

BWBritWes.PNG (659.85 KiB) Viewed 2684 times

Interesting huh ?

Edit: Never mind - I found The Other Custom BASE - a modified one.

Checking Results are somehow a motivation for getting rid of SPAM data:

Code: Select all

NumReachSpecs: This map has 1990 ReachSpecs shown as direct paths in Navigation Network.
NumReachSpecs: Also this map has 2957 ReachSpecs as shortcuts aka PrunedPaths in Navigation Network.
NumReachSpecs: These are not visible in Editor but they are used by Pawns.
NumReachSpecs: After calculation we have 4947 ReachSpecs.
....
MaxNumFound: I found a sum of 5071 reachspecs defined in map, from 0 to 5070.

There are Over-Charged spots and others with paths missing.

[evilgrins]

You didn't think my name was really EvilGrins, did you?

Britton Wesley is Zen Coder's real name.
https://unrealarchive.org/search/index.html?q=zencoder

I've played the UTDMT version of Burger Wars, that blue flag really is all the way up there.... it's a tricky map to play because there's not a lot of places to dodge incoming fire, but one does what one can.

[Nelsona]

Good.... Let's clarify the homework. Do we need that useless Lift or not ? What paths should be here, Big-Size type or plain paths ? AlternatePaths ? Recovering Warlord from being lost ? Usually it should react at enemy and flying pawn is a good paths seeker, unless we need to trigger it more often - forcing it a bit. I'll take a tour through these for figuring what exactly is in each of them. Perhaps monsters might need some HomeBase for guarding around and for not being too spread...
Ghandi lolzers need to be mapped in paths or not ? You won't have too much A.I. activity with those things, me one I don't see why are they needed. Setting up a party in 227 probably will cause compatibility issues and they will need to be temporary removed...