Map assessment and pathing enhancements

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evilgrins
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins » Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:26 am

Nelsona wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:09 am
I think it needs more work... or another strategy...
I'll run it by Anubitek, he's good with sky boxes.
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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:54 am

Well... yes, let him do something with that - worth giving him original, maybe he has more patience for recovering small pieces...
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evilgrins
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:10 pm

Nelsona wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:54 am
Well... yes, let him do something with that - worth giving him original, maybe he has more patience for recovering small pieces...
That would seem silly. The original didn't have that problem.
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins » Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:17 pm

In the meantime... this is an old map by Ferali, with VERY large noses.

Pathing kinda sucks.

Assess.
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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:49 pm

evilgrins wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:10 pm
That would seem silly. The original didn't have that problem.
The original is crashing due to some other texture problem as you said...
evilgrins wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:17 pm
In the meantime... this is an old map by Ferali, with VERY large noses.

Pathing kinda sucks.
Kinda known situation... Let me see it...
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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:44 pm

Yep... I'm not sure about Bot how much can follow some direction in here. There are jumps required, guiding flight and all sort of things.
What is annoying is that even player can get stuck in some places like here:
Stuck.png
Stuck.png (951.75 KiB) Viewed 241 times
If human player has a brain and can switch to translocator, for bot will need some extra scripting or else it won't do too much.
The question is if worth making paths which they will have serious difficulties to follow, it's more easy for adding Bot Support the other one BattleForIceAndFire even if are needed more paths for covering areas... I can create manually reachSpecs where Editor doesn't do but they won't have any use... If Editor is rejecting zones it's because Engine cannot handle A.I. movement everywhere.

Edit:In other hand I believe you can do Bot Support yourself here as I did around years 2011 2012 in my novice bot pathing times, PathNodes in plain horizontal areas and... Teleporters getting over heavy spots... nothing will explode guaranteed. Of course... initial "jumpy-crazy-flight" map's purpose will get ruined correctly and the hate for Bots which author has (as you might already know) - will be completely detonated in pieces and dust. Such a map is bugging me as well not only Bots. I prefer a more standard work not where even Human Player gets stuck based on "design" fantasies...
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evilgrins
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:49 am

Flag Bases are near the ceiling, WAY up there. Between the 2 bases is a mirror which I can't seem to delete/remove.

I want to set the map up with bat-wings, with cannons guarding the bases up there... but I need the mirror out of the way.

Please remove it.
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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:42 am

Okay, I found it...
Now let me see build result, and then I'll wash all mess out. Too many sick spots with overcrowded paths out of a logic purpose.

Edit:
Mirror is gone at once with Red Builder template brush - that trash taking bytes can be removed but no mapper bothers doing that.
Now I have to look at results. Here and there in corners of ViewPort might be small surfaces flickering - happening in majority of maps, stock or less stock - Render is... Render.

Bots are not affected even if map is reduced from 4095 reachspecs registered and a total number of 4120 reachspecs to 2486 ALL registered and being map's reachspecs, using ORIGINAL plain DevPath and this doesn't seems to do any issue, more than that, previous internal chains "PrevOrdered" "NextOrdered" is wiped because, I think Devs are remapping them when pawn is checking paths automatically in run-time, I think all that chain is a DYNAMIC Run-Time process which has no purpose in Editor or hosted/defined as map junks during mapping paths by Mr. Scout - I hope I'm not wrong here as long as I could see some of these what are doing during "FindPathToward" calls and I think if a Pawn is calling "ClearPaths" it also does a CleanUp in run-time which is beneficial for getting rid of some resources allocated and not used all time by others - I have to study these more intensive for figuring what is doable as a cheap hack operated by whatever actor in map causing a processing speed-up during run-time as a future homework for me, not right here and right now.
Anyway here Epic and their addicted teams are demonstrating that they did not really understood what Polge and Sweney were doing and how to optimize these properly especially in ages where players were using slower PIII machines and all sort optimizations would be highly recommended for the benefit of everybody. On a PIII these arrays optimized/reduced well can be easily feel by players but... when you are saying things in documents it's like you are talking to the walls because nobody cares, slow minded cube drawers are only laughing at lights and textures and if map it's working for these jesters it's just enough, even if all Level processing can be improved and it could make it an over-voted Map.
It's pretty disappointing...
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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:29 pm

Done ?
CTF-HallOfGiants-II_NMir.7z
(312.67 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
You can rebuild geometry if you don't like what's the deal here.

DefensePoint Actors have been balanced - I'm not interested in setting up advantages only for one team.
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evilgrins
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:18 pm

Seems to be working pretty good, get the occasional BSP flash but they're fairly brief.

I'm working on aspects and I've run into something odd, which may not be fixable.

HallOfGiants maps all have decent pathing, but there's a lot of empty space on the map which the wings make more accessible but I get weird results.

For example, bots with the wings tend to take the flag, take the teleport down to the middle area, and then fly right back to the base they stole the flag from.

Still tinkering, will bop something for you to assess soon.
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