Map assessment and pathing enhancements

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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona »

evilgrins wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:14 am but in the flag room seemed a bit much to me. Too easy to nuke whoever takes the flag...
Yes, but imagine that in a SLV game story changes in a wrong way. Player spawns, enemy is quickly coming stealing flag, until you load some weapon for taking it down, enemy carrier it's already in base scoring, it's not like you want to waste time, trust me, I could see how SLV games are played, be fast or you are defeated in less than 2 minutes, it's the opposite of camper games and even faster than you can think about.

As a note: Aerial support in the meaning of native flying paths is doable in 2021 trying to do something for future mods perhaps more pro. These can be done better hand made for setting up routes. But... I'm wondering if it worth working a longer time for doing something which is not triggering too much interest of UT spirits.
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evilgrins
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins »

I'm pretty sure even a bot with the worst aim ever can shoot down an SLV with that Star Wars shock rifle.

Quick question... editing this map has been a pain because all pickups aren't visible in the editor. I've been having to primarily use the binoculars to find things and then picking delete from the above menus, or properties from up there too. I can't even see the things I added to the map after I've closed down the editor and then opened it up again later.

Thunderbolt's doing, I know... but how do I make everything visible?
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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona »

See this...
CTF-UTDM-HOF-ImperialBase_rS875.7z
(8.51 MiB) Downloaded 152 times
You can remove paths (not PathNodes) and change weapons as you want, after that you can rebuild paths. They should be build normally, map is easy for pathing I don't think it won't be pathed well automatically.
So to speak it supports whatever needed rebuild of paths - except geometry because map has no brushes.

Edit: See Group Browser. Map has a default single group called "None". This one is not checked and so it's invisible. Check that group and make actors from this group visible.
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evilgrins
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins »

Ancient coliseum themed map. Has multiple levels and play area underground which isn't really essential. Most of what's down there are cages of other monsters, with some out in the open.

Actual play area, bots do not take the flag and often get hung up in spots.

2 "gladiators" in the fighting area, just for the monotony.

Other than 1 pillar I'm likely gonna delete, mostly want you to fix bot pathing. The further underground stuff is mostly for human players that wanna explore.
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CTF-UTDM-COLISEUM-WIP.zip
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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona »

Question: Did you get these ?
Der_Patze.PNG
Der_Patze.PNG (1.19 MiB) Viewed 3461 times
I think someone cannot read in english at all.

Edit: I examined "options". I never got the point of having such height and allowing pawns to evade behind walls with so much useless volume added. Map can be pathed normally somehow - except ShieldBelts which would need some pre-tweaking before applying Editor's work - but if Warlord or whatever creature is boosted up and goes over normal play arena it's not my problem. This is exactly the style which I dislike to not forget paths here... 12000+ reachSpecs and nothing happens as CTFGame from Bots. Then it's a mix of subtracts and adds and subtracted again and so on, a bunch of processing for results which could be done more simple...
evilgrins wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:36 am The further underground stuff is mostly for human players that wanna explore.
And to remain trapped in rooms because all triggers for doors are completely outside of rooms.


Okay, I'll do paths, the rest would be your doing...
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evilgrins
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins »

Only worry about the bots.

Warlord and Titan are not a problem... both of them stay within the boundaries of the arena with the exception of the Warlord going up in the stands. I've not seen any play of this map where the Warlord tried to escape over the top.
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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona »

A "WIP" lab modification having paths and some more or less useless SpawnPoints doing Events, but not having Tags and No factory has been found in range for them, is here for finishing it as you like.
Paths are build using automated Editor C++ Scripts but... after "telling" at Gobling about "BOT Pathing" requirement not "Pawn Messing" requirements, I got what is below:
CTF-UTDM-COLISEUM-WIP_rS2680.7z
(907.25 KiB) Downloaded 117 times
As geometry aspect, those "glasses" are visible here without HOMS at ledges, either way if map is being rebuild they go invisible because of poly-flags used at brushes and need recovered - this is what's the deal in my Editor, I did not change any flags but "vertexing" those polygons pointing visibility at 3D-space's void and doing lousy effects... If you have other issues let me know, maybe they can be solved.
Claimed state: UnFinished - WIP more exactly.
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evilgrins
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins »

That works, a map isn't done until it's done... and sometimes not even then.

You've probably noticed a new regular to a lot of forums, he started popping on more after finding my forums list. He runs a sniper server and he's an amateur mapper to boot. Notably he popped up a War of the World themed map and sent it my way to see what could be done with it.

It's HUGE, he specified he wanted no monsters added to it but was open to an NPC... that's where you come in.

I had Anubitek create a skybox for it, but the map has no pathing. Now, for a sniper server it isn't really made for bots but the NPC may need a bit of help.

When configuring a normal bot, I sometimes go overboard to make a bot that will really challenge me...
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...and the Abyss is a hell of a challenge, kills often without a clue where she was... and that's due to the "avoidant" part.

You likely can't path for that, but similar to how bots in CTF goto any number of defense points when guarding a flag, is there a way to path a map so any bots on it will head for cover and stick to such a place? I'm asking if you can path this map for the NPC on it, dubbed Human-Martian Hybrid, so it will act like a camper? Find a spot, or spots depending where it spawns in, and stay there and kill from a safe location.

Don't need to tweak the NPC's settings, just path it in such a way that it's not running all over out in the open and getting torn apart by snipers.

Other point of interest: sXs-sketchpad put 2 large Martian vehicles on the map and has mortars shooting them... but they emerge from nowhere directly in front of the Martian ships. It looks bad, and even without a specific point of origin it would look better if they launched from somewhere farther away. Similar to like what you did with that pirate-themed map way back when.

Anyway... have fun.
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DM-NPC-sXs-wotw3-v2.zip
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Nelsona
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by Nelsona »

Pathing generally is based on connecting nodes properly. Next stage is knowing who uses paths and how. I'm aware about Bot - stock Bot and deals in CTF or whatever mission based movement. Perhaps I have to look at these NPC things for figuring their main core operating mode. Then, based on results I have to setup pathing strategy.

Edit - Eh...
A low brained child of UnrealShare.Bots. At least this is set mainly for less wise combat and movement capabilities:
Scientist_NPC.PNG
Scientist_NPC.PNG (1.05 MiB) Viewed 3302 times
Okay, these Bots in theory should be capable to ambush at AmbushPoints - if they are not too busy to collect some weaponry.
If are crawling too much, perhaps some camping nodes would help - addressing their class on purpose, a few cycles leaving them to roam, then discarding them or something like this - if this boy is delegated to act like a defender - camping... in the most of cases.
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Re: Map assessment and pathing enhancements

Post by evilgrins »

Feel free to mess with its internal AI. I changed it to frenzy and reptile because that seemed Martian appropriate, but whatever works best.

It spawns in with no weapon, unlike the SkaarjPlayerBot (which no one made an NPC for) and you can assign it a weapon when it starts, this guy doesn't get one until he dies. Had half a mind to initially place him somewhere high up so he dies as soon as the game starts and then he'll have a weapon from then on.
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